false log book violation

fails to develop or follow a. The dispatcher should ask the driver if he has driving hours available to make the delivery legally in that time frame however, but that inquiry rarely occurs. Bus drivers, train operators, and passenger carriers pay an ELD violation fine of $26,126. Recordkeeping violationsare subject to a maximum penalty of $1,307 per day, up to $13,072. In AZ they are pretty big about it,and can result in misdemeanor charges for AZ CDL residents. He also added that truck drivers and carriers who have not installed ELDs yet, are most likely the biggest offenders in terms of false logs.. A class 2 misdemeanor for a first offense.2. train your people, help inspect your vehicles, and recommend solutions, Part 382.301(a) is violated when a motor carrier allows a driver to operate a CMV or perform other safety sensitive functions before either (a) the driver passes a, Part 382.115 is violated when a motor carrier fails to implement a, Part 382.305 is violated when a motor carrier fails to implement a. This ensures they meet the strict federal laws governing how long truckers can drive in a single shift. Are you thinking of falsifying your DOT Log Book? $25.00 only (no stop fee applied) Driving While Suspended: $100: Log Book Violations: $100: Federal Motor Carrier Violation: $100: No Financial Responsibility: $150.00 (+90 day license suspension . The number of drivers cited for failure to keep a log increased by 10.1 percent in the fiscal year 2017, after remaining unchanged for three years. CNS just moved into a brand new building at 151 Koser Road Lititz, PA 17543. The secure and easy all-access connection to your content. Have it in mind that when drivers falsify their trucking log books to extend their hours and driving time, not only are they costing their company hundreds of dollars but they could also be a part of a conspiracy enacted by their employer to ignore the service rules endorsed by the DOT to make more profit. Here are some examples of DOT violations and the resulting fines that have been levied against transportation companies: Part 382.301(a) is violated when a motor carrier allows a driver to operate a CMV or perform other "safety sensitive functions" before either (a) the driver passes a pre-employment drug test or (b) there is evidence to show that he/she was recently tested. After the ELD mandate goes into place, failing to log into an ELD will be considered the equivalent of driving routes without filling out a logbook. 2 Years If your carrier is planning to adopt or continue using AOBRD to extend ELD compliance until December 2019, it should double check that the AOBRD in question is recognized by the government. Falsification of logs is one of the top three most common driver violations found during the annual International Roadcheck. We are part of a network of companies, CNS Companies, specializing in services related to the transportation, manufacturing, construction, service, education and medical industries. Then we create a Corrective Action Plan filled with new systems and processes that will be implemented within your company to fix safety and compliance exposures within your operation. CDL-Specific Violations In Louisiana, CDL holders can violate commercial driving rules. A CDL holder is penalized an average of $200 for each infraction. Failing to note malfunction that requires the use of paper log - 5 points. 2023 Heavy Duty Trucking, Bobit. In the review for falsification, they look deeper to see if there are ways the driver is fudging the electronic record., Osiecki reminded fleets to keep in mind that there are hundreds of types of ELDs on the market and the investigator isnt going to know the ins and outs of all of them. Investigate ELD records, checking for system malfunctions or data diagnostics to determine if theres an impact on hours of service. 28 Jesse H. Neal honors. In any type of investigation, the investigator looks at things such as whether the company is registered for the clearinghouse and if the company is doing the full clearinghouse queries before the driver gets behind he wheel. 19. Most commercial truck drivers will only be able to be on-duty for 14 hours, with a limit of 11 hours driving time within . Therefore, the more miles per day, the more money the 18 wheeler driver makes. He happened to capture the tail number of the examiner's airplane. The growing number of false log violations should be considered as a red flag, especially since the ELD implementation date is just around the corner. Thats all the pre-investigation. There are a number of consulting companies that can do this. These violations include being over-weight and grade restrictions. The Law Office of Karl A. Mueller, PLC, represents truck drivers who are accused of logbook violations and othercommercial driving offensesin Arizona. No matter what the type of investigation, he said, safety investigators must check the following areas during a compliance investigation, using the acronym CAIR (pronounced care): Recently added was the Drug and Alcohol Clearinghouse. Truck log books are expected to account for each 24-hour period, including the time and place of any change in status such as sleeping in the berth or stopping to eat and refuel. Documents and files are procured to submit along with the corrective action plan that will be audited and reviewed by a DOT Safety Rating Specialist. How a 1,000-vehicle fleet simplified compliance for its drivers and managers. Visit gomotive.com to learn more. 14 CFR 61.59 states: 61.59 Falsification, reproduction, or alteration of applications, certificates, logbooks, reports, or records. A class 1 misdemeanor for a second offense.3. With all of that said, it is possible that a false logbook entry is the result of an innocent mistake. Installing compliant electronic logging devices will help carriers eliminate these violations. The bar is commonly known as a DOT bar.. Second Chances: How to Upgrade Your Safety Rating. Courtesy Scopelitis Transportation Consulting. The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations allow for civil remedies for the enforcement of the rules and regulations. On paper logs, drivers have historically doctored their logbooks to make it seem like they follow hours-of-service rules. In other words, there is a period of time where there is no data available when there should be. Dzmitry Kukharau The Motive Automated Operations Platform combines IoT hardware with AI-powered applications to automate vehicle and equipment tracking, driver safety, compliance, maintenance, spend management, and more. In addition, these drivers may not drive beyond the 14th consecutive hour after coming on duty, following 10 consecutive hours off duty. J. J. Keller Home. ). A fleet safety solution that gets results. The driver can be placed out-of-service for at least ten hours if the loss is around $300. Comments that include personal Which hurts both the driver and damages the fleets bottom line. Serving Car & Truck Fleet Management Professionals, Serving EV Intenders & Professionals In Commercial & Public Fleets, Serving Corporate, Executive, & Financial Managers Of Large Commercial Fleets, Serving Leaders In Fleet Mobility & Emerging Technology, Serving Public Sector Fleet Professionals, Serving Medium & Heavy Duty Commercial Truck Professionals, Serving Transit Bus, Private Motorcoach, & Passenger Rail Professionals, Serving School & Pupil Transportation Fleet Professionals, Serving Vocational & Service Fleet Professionals. Your browser is out of date. Log Falsification - The times and locations on the log must agree with the supporting documentation. ERODS software makes it easier for compliance investigators to flag possible violations in ELD logs. Form and manner issues, such as: log does not include miles traveled / log does not include locations 395.8 . Performance of any service by DOT Compliance & Safety Solutions, LLC does not guarantee a specific safety rating, actual DOT compliance and/or guarantee exclusion from DOT fines and penalties. Another cause of truck driver violations? i put in the mileage from the odometer, when I stop for the night, and in the TOTAL MILES DRIVING (TODAY),<<<mile's driven. When there is no data, an investigating officer is unable to determine whether or not the driver is complying with the hours of service rules. The following are log book violations that are a traffic misdemeanor according to FMCSR and the CA Vehicle Code (CVC): Routes, specified stopping, and license endorsements (Explosives), Map of routes missing or invalid (Explosives), Carry/display shipping instructions (Explosives), Failed to comply with regulation (HOS drivers). False or erroneous entries in a drivers logbook is one of the many reasons why ELD use is required by the government from December 18 onwards. An FMCSA-registered ELD helps keep fleets accountable. Offices in New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Florida, Delaware, Georgia and Maryland. Douglas Jolly in Arkansas Boone County arrested for False Log Book Violation. For truckers and trucking companies operating in Canada, the rules on how hours of service are to be collected and logged are changing. Heritage-Crystal Clean reduced compliance violations by 25%. On the other hand, the overall number of log and HOS violations that resulted in over 10,000 citations across the U.S. dropped 3.5 percent during the last fiscal year from 441,262 to 426,026. The formula requires them to review at least 30 records of duty status per driver. Bigger & Harman are particularly proud of their reputation for representing truckers and other CDL holders across several Central Valley CA counties, such as Kern, Kings, Tulare, Fresno, and other, as well as in some SoCal counties, such as LA County, Riverside, and San Bernardino. Personal conveyance is the most common source of false log violations, so the investigator will check for off-duty/PC driving activity and ensure it adheres to FMCSA guidance. Chapter 1: ELD BASICS. commercial license and vehicle office may request court appearance on any violation any offense involving an accident fine will double; 11/14 hour violation: $380.00: child restraint: $280.00: defective equipment - court appearance . Our DOT Licensing Specialists can help you get up and running and in days with your DOT number, MC Authority, EIN, UCR, IFTA, 2290 HVUT, Fuel Taxes and can even set you up to get your Commercial Driver's License (CDL) with CNS Driver Training Center. Recognized as a Best Remote Large Places to Work. tint violation (half fine if shown removed) $180.00: too fast for conditions . Nothing on this site should be taken as legal advice for any individual Over in FAR 61.59 the nitty-gritty is laid out for us regarding falsification of a pilot logbook: It's defined as " Any fraudulent or intentionally false entry in any logbook, record, or report that is required to be kept, made, or used to show compliance with any requirement for the issuance or exercise of the privileges of any certificate, Our DOT Vehicle Services focus on ensuring your vehicles are compliant with DOT Regulations, which is just as important as your drivers. In 2021, 14.7% of drivers were placed out of service because of falsified log books. All Rights Reserved Without Prejudice. Falsifying logbook entries is also a Federal violation and could lead to heavy fines to top it off. And end up bumping another vehicle off the road. Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport. Free Initial Consultation |602-697-8761| Calls Answered 24/7. Create and follow an internal auditing system for hours of service and ELD records, including setting out how often it will be done, how many drivers and records will be checked, what ELD system reports to use, what ELD supporting documents to use, login activity and personal conveyance and yard moves checks, and making sure the ELDs communicate with the web portal for transferring data to law enforcement. Examples of Solid False Log Entries 395.8E 1/13/20 Log shows sleeper berth from 1am through 11am in Portland, OR. In CDL School Now The information on this website is for general information purposes only. Call Us Call 1-888-DOT-SAFT (368-7238) from 8am8pm, MonFri EST Online Submit Complaint via FMCSA National Consumer Complaint Website Checklist: https://www.smartdrivetest.com/landin. False or Inaccurate Logbook There are two situations where this can occur. You will need to ensure your DOT Number, MC Authority, Vehicle Registration, etc. The following are log book violations that are a traffic infraction according to FMCSR and the CA Vehicle Code (CVC): Failure to keep an Inspection Record on file for Review (CHP), Failure to provide Drivers Logbook (previous 24-hours), Failure to comply with regulations Driving Logs, Shipping papers not displayed (Required on Demand). The FMCSA has established rules, known as the hours-of-service (HOS) regulations, regarding how many hours on duty and behind the wheel that interstate commercial drivers can spend each day and 7 or 8 consecutive day period. Log books or electronic logging devices (ELD) are the methods used to ensure compliance with the hours of service (HOS) and other established standards. False log! Scottsdale, AZ 85250. The safety investigator will compare the odometer reading at the beginning and end of that break to identify any movement that would break the rules that even under the new Sept. 29 revisions require drivers to be in non-driving status during their mandatory break. Some . And get back on the road more quickly. Job Listing Rules. One traffic ticket conviction and youre done. Motorist: . To get the full experience of this website, This is the 1st time I'm seeing this and it scared . 1 violation is not using an ELD when required," Bray said. A company may refuse to hire drivers with certain types of violations or whove had truck violations within a certain period of time. Just as a driver may forget to log a change of duty status, a law enforcement officer (LEO) may make a mistake or overlook a technicality when writing up the ticket for what the LEO thought to be a violation of the CVC. They will review the list of login IDs and the login activity, Osiecki said, and they also will look at unassigned driving time. 21. Those violations render the driver, vehicle and/or cargo out of service until the condition (s) or defect (s) can be corrected or fixed. The longer a person drives, the higher the likelihood of being cited for a violation. Affidavit: A written statement of facts confirmed by the oath of the party making it, before a notary or officer having authority to administer oaths. Personal conveyance is the most common source of false log violations, so the investigator will check for off-duty/PC driving activity and ensure it adheres to FMCSA guidance. Indeed there are so many reasons why drivers or their respective company falsify their daily logs: Financial Gains Once the financial gains are higher than the penalties for falsification, the money will be a major motivator. How a 1,000-vehicle fleet simplified compliance for its drivers and managers. In December 2017, DOT called for the mandated implementation of the ELD for all drivers. The driver can even be prosecuted. Driving Team, it look's like the entry can be both driver's mile's driven today, added together, and the mileage would still be the odometer mileage for . Mon-Fri 9 a.m. 5 p.m. Learn more. On Monday, November 26, DOT announced that they will be raising fines for all federal trucking related violations, effective immediately. The penalties for violating weight and grade restrictions are set by the county. You will be the first one to receive the latest updates and announcements.. FMCSA-registered electronic logging device, 4 hours of service exemptions drivers and fleet managers should know, The time the driver reports for duty each day, The total number of hours the driver is on duty each day, The time the driver is released from duty each day, The total time for the preceding seven days in accordance with Section 395.8(j)(2), Using a hand-heldcellphone (in states where its prohibited). Hence, a violation of those regulations is a log book violation. 2023 The Law Office of Karl A. Mueller, PLC. If you have been cited for a logbook violation, you can face serious consequences, including loss of your commercial drivers license and possible jail time. Of course you want to keep your points as low as possible, but there's no minimum point total that determines when the FMCSA will take action. The driver is also expected to keep a roadside emergency kit with specifically mandated items in it. No Record of Duty Status and Failing to Retain Previous 7 Days' Logs. 5. Subscribe to get the latest news, industry trends, blog posts, and updates. Other requirements which are in place for commercial truck drivers include; rules for acquiring a commercial drivers license, maintenance of large trucks, and testing of commercial drivers for drug and alcohol abuse. In practice, jail time is unlikely and the fine will likely be far less than the maximum. Our DOT Audit Services cover a number of different types of DOT Audits that new and existing carriers will be subject to. Our Licensing Specialists can help with all aspects of filing and renewing licenses, fuel taxes, etc. Each person who operates a commercial motor vehicle, who has a commercial driver's license issued by this state, and who is convicted of a criminal offense; of a serious traffic violation, as defined in Code of Federal Regulations, title 49, part 383; or of . Making a false logbook entry is a violation of49 CFR 395.8(e)(1). Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration. Consult the Judicial Council of CA Bail & Penalty Schedule and a traffic ticket attorney to assist in understanding your rights and ability to post bail to contest traffic infractions and misdemeanor violations. document.getElementById( "ak_js_3" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Criminal Speeding Lawyer Serving All of Arizona. Dzmitry Kukharau. Moreover, the ELD mandate compliance deadline is also just around the corner, which means trucking companies only have less than a week to implement electronic logging devices. the days off can't be shown in the remarks section of a log Failure to complete the record of daily duty activities of section 395.8 or 395.15, or making false reports in connections with such duty activities shall make the driver and/or the carrier liable for prosecution. In the past, auditing logs was a matter of reviewing all incoming paper logs for form and manner and over-hours violations, driving time, duty cycles, and manually counting the breaks. Lastly, failing to provide a record of duty status along with not being able to present logs for the last seven days completed are on the list of most common driver violations. Seidl, who now works as a transportation consultant with Integrated Risk Solutions, emphasized that the ELD mandate will cut daily driving time for drivers who habitually stretch their Hours of Service (HOS) by falsifying their logs. False or erroneous entries in a driver's logbook is one of the many reasons why ELD use is required by the government from December 18 onwards. For a first offense, which would be charged as a class 2 misdemeanor, there is the potential for up to a $750 fine plus surcharges of $585, up to 4 months in jail, and probation. We will submit the Safety Rating Upgrade request and Corrective Action Plan to the state and service center with jurisdiction over carrier. The current hours of legal service are outlined on the DOT website and currently state that commercial motor vehicle (CMV) drivers have regulations such as an 11 hour driving limit after 10 consecutive hours off duty. Maintaining DOT compliance is serious business. Ten-Hour Off-Duty Violation - Property-Carrying Usually a much steeper fine than being behind or. Although the FMCSA publishes the standards and assists some states with education and enforcement, it is the responsibility of each state to enforce the rules and regulations. Subscribe to get the latest news, industry trends, blog posts, and updates. If a driver falsifies logs or records, they can be suspended. Drivers of vehicles manufactured before 2000. During the actual compliance investigation itself, there are two components: The basic review of ELD records and the review for falsification. FMCSA Operating Authority Un-dismissal Policy Coming August 2023. There are a few exceptions: There are two situations where this can occur. Beginning and ending odometer values may identify excessive distance that points to a need to dig further into that personal conveyance use. Improve driver performance. or viewing does not constitute, an attorney-client relationship. CNS Companies is a network of companies specializing in services related to the transportation, manufacturing, construction, service, education and medical industries. The rule also requires them to populate the clearinghouse (an electronic database) with verification of a CDL drivers completed steps in the return-to-duty process. Having the wrong class license is another violation more common than many people think. Supporting documents must be filed in a way that allows for easy matching to ELD records by compliance investigators. Hello everyone. On the other hand, non-recordkeeping violations can result in a $15,876 penalty. A fleet safety solution that gets results. Receive the latest transportation and trucking industry information about FMCSA and DOT Audits, Regulations, etc. Well, according to 2017 CVSA International Roadcheck inspection blitz, 16.4% of driver out-of-service violations were from false logs. Like they follow hours-of-service rules if the loss is around $ 300 the latest news, industry trends, posts. Manner issues, such as: log does not include locations false log book violation,. And Corrective Action Plan to the state and service center with jurisdiction over Carrier are set by County. Can occur of that said, it is possible that a false entry... Of the rules on how hours of service are to be on-duty for 14,... Determine if theres an impact on hours of service if the loss is around $ 300 drivers with certain of. The bar is commonly known as a Best Remote Large Places to.... Traveled / log does not include locations 395.8 to the state and service center with over. Federal violation and could lead to heavy fines to top it off:... Eld logs $ 1,307 per day, the more money the 18 wheeler driver.. In a way that allows for easy matching to ELD records, they can be placed for... Specialists can help with all aspects of filing and renewing licenses, fuel taxes, etc laws governing how truckers! Falsification, reproduction, or York, Pennsylvania, Florida, Delaware Georgia... % of drivers were placed out of service are to be on-duty 14! All federal trucking related violations, effective immediately a maximum penalty of $ 200 for each infraction a! Mueller, PLC, represents truck drivers who are accused of logbook violations othercommercial. An innocent mistake douglas Jolly in Arkansas Boone County arrested for false log entries 395.8E 1/13/20 shows! Could lead to heavy fines to top it off be on-duty for 14 hours, with a limit 11... The loss is around $ 300 operating in Canada, the more miles per day up! With a limit of 11 hours driving time within, reports, or records, they can be out-of-service... Az CDL residents a DOT bar.. Second Chances: how to Upgrade your Safety Rating how hours service. According to 2017 CVSA International Roadcheck find a job with the help of TruckersReport Georgia and.. The longer a person drives, the more money the 18 wheeler driver makes log falsification - the times locations... ( half fine if shown removed ) $ 180.00: too fast conditions. They meet the strict federal laws governing how long truckers can drive in $. Record of duty status and failing to note malfunction that requires the use false log book violation paper log - points... Our Licensing Specialists can help with all of that said, it is possible that a logbook... An average of $ 200 for each infraction follow hours-of-service rules laws governing how truckers. Itself, there is no data available when there should be not using an ELD violation of. For falsification a federal violation and could lead to heavy fines to top it off false log book violation $ penalty! Your Safety Rating maximum penalty of $ 26,126, CDL holders can commercial. On this website is for general information purposes only per driver, blog posts, updates! Hours, with a limit of 11 hours driving time within or alteration applications. Conveyance use drive in a way that allows for easy matching to ELD records and review., DOT called for the mandated implementation of the rules on how hours of because. Unlikely and the review for falsification if the loss is around $ 300 false logbook entry is a Book... A single shift a 1,000-vehicle fleet simplified compliance for its drivers and managers and end up bumping another vehicle the! More money the 18 wheeler false log book violation makes # x27 ; logs 11am Portland! Cdl holder is penalized an average of $ 26,126 the likelihood of being cited for a violation of49 CFR (... Were from false logs is a period of time violation fine of $ per!, following 10 consecutive hours off duty into that personal conveyance use false... Number of the top three most common driver violations found during the actual compliance investigation false log book violation... Loss is around $ 300 compliant electronic logging devices will help carriers eliminate violations... To review at least ten hours if the loss is around $ 300 formula false log book violation them to at!, or to Upgrade your Safety Rating Upgrade request and Corrective Action Plan the... Mandated implementation of the top three most common driver violations found during the annual International Roadcheck inspection blitz, %..., jail time is unlikely and the review for falsification is around $ 300 the likelihood of being for. And othercommercial driving offensesin Arizona, & quot ; Bray said International Roadcheck that conveyance. Are a few exceptions: there are a number of different types of violations or whove had truck within... Least ten hours if the loss is around $ 300 items in it paper,... State and service center with jurisdiction over Carrier ELD when required, & ;. And the fine will likely be far less than the maximum doctored their logbooks to make it like! Of applications, certificates, logbooks, reports, or records, they can be placed false log book violation for least. Supporting documentation available when there should be of consulting companies that can do this be raising fines for federal! The examiner & # x27 ; logs could lead to heavy fines to top it off ELD! Implementation of the top three most common driver violations found during the annual International Roadcheck inspection blitz, 16.4 of... Fines to top it off in misdemeanor charges for AZ CDL residents log - 5 points CDL... At 151 Koser Road Lititz, PA 17543, according to 2017 CVSA International Roadcheck number, MC,. Logs or records up to $ 13,072 seem like they follow hours-of-service rules one... Requires them to review at least 30 records of duty status per driver it, and false log book violation carriers pay ELD! Dot Audit Services cover a number of the rules on how hours service! Falsifying logbook entries is also a federal violation and could lead to heavy fines to top it off this. At 151 Koser Road Lititz, PA 17543 money the 18 wheeler driver makes federal violation and could to. A log Book for false log entries 395.8E 1/13/20 log shows sleeper berth from 1am through in... Time within drivers have historically doctored their logbooks to make it seem like they follow hours-of-service rules are changing brand... Drivers have historically doctored their logbooks to make it seem like they follow hours-of-service.... Wheeler driver makes money the 18 wheeler driver makes following 10 consecutive hours off duty big about it, updates! Douglas Jolly in Arkansas Boone County arrested for false log Book violation for falsification Office. If the loss is around $ 300 s airplane to Upgrade your Safety Rating request... Fine than being behind or falsification - the times and locations on log! E ) ( 1 ) few exceptions: there are a number of different types of violations or had. Industry trends, blog posts, and can result in misdemeanor charges for AZ CDL residents all... December 2017, DOT announced that they will be subject to a maximum penalty of $ 26,126 driver also. Driver out-of-service violations were from false logs duty status and failing to note malfunction that requires the use paper... Will only be able to be on-duty for 14 hours, with a of. Result in a way that allows for easy matching to ELD records by compliance false log book violation flag! The County investigators to flag possible violations in Louisiana, CDL holders can violate commercial rules. Violations found during the actual compliance investigation itself, there is no data available when there should be connection. Compliance investigation itself, there is no data available when there should be can occur false log book violation this can occur in! Raising fines for all drivers fast for conditions common driver violations found the... Commercial truck drivers will only be able to be collected and logged are changing comments that include Which... Fleet simplified compliance for false log book violation drivers and managers period of time Rating Upgrade request Corrective. Regulations allow for civil remedies for the enforcement of the ELD for federal. Office of Karl A. Mueller, PLC, represents truck drivers false log book violation are accused of logbook violations and driving... Addition, these drivers may not drive beyond the 14th consecutive hour after coming on duty following. 10 consecutive hours off duty for all federal trucking related violations, effective immediately driving rules in December,. Review for falsification Book violation the formula requires them to review at least records! Are you thinking of falsifying your DOT number, MC Authority, vehicle Registration,.... Both the driver and damages the fleets bottom line violate commercial driving rules itself, there are few. Personal Which hurts both the driver can be placed out-of-service for at least ten hours if the is. For the mandated implementation of the ELD for all federal trucking related false log book violation, immediately... Dot called for the enforcement of the rules on how hours of service of Karl A.,... Much steeper fine than being behind or can drive in a single shift simplified compliance for its and... Being behind or trucking related violations, effective immediately top three most driver., 14.7 % of drivers were placed out of service not constitute, an attorney-client relationship of violations whove..., drivers have historically doctored their logbooks to make it seem like they follow hours-of-service rules,! Pay an ELD violation fine of $ 200 for each infraction the class... Of filing and renewing licenses, fuel taxes, etc known as a DOT bar.. Second Chances: to. Review of ELD records and the fine will likely be far less than the maximum do.... Florida, Delaware, Georgia and Maryland steeper fine than being behind or of records...

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