Each of these texts then, the Yahwist too, was written as a means to legitimate possession of northern Moab by making claims to divine right. It is not known how long the private worship of Chemosh in Judah and Moab actually continued. ', https://www.firstbiblenetwork.com/PrenicenePerspective.html, https://www.firstbiblenetwork.com/FBNRadio.html, https://www.compellingtruth.org/Moabites.html, http://web.mit.edu/jywang/www/cef/Bible/NIV/NIV_Bible/2KGS+3.html, https://apologeticspress.org/ruth-david-and-a-moabite-mandate-5633/, https://classroom.synonym.com/religious-offerings-and-sacrifices-to-the-greek-gods-12086670.html, https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-moabites, --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/firstbiblenetwork/message. He was called by the ancient Israelites as "the abomination of Moab". Podcast Pre-Nicene PerspectiveYahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:262023217 ), Mesha (2 Kings 3:5) ascribes his victories over the king of Israel to this god, "And Chemosh drove him before my . As for why the depiction of Yahweh would be so rudimentary, Garfinkel said that whereas Egypt and the Mesopotamia were rich kingdoms with court artists, the Kingdom of Judah was poor, small . Citing this older poem allows the Yahwist to counter the claims made in the Mesha stele (below) by claiming that the Israelites under Omri took the land from the Amorites not the Moabites. Information on Chemosh is scarce, although archaeology and text can render a clearer picture of the deity. Apparently you didn't read the whole chapter and are deliberately taking it out of context in order to preach your unsupported claims. The fury against Israel was great; they withdrew and returned to their own land. We also learn from this account that Israel maintained an otherwise unknown shrine to Yahweh at Nebo during this time, in which valuable sacred vessels were kept. The great wrath may refer to the divine wrath of Chemosh! In Judah and Israel, the worship of Chemosh, Moloch, Baal, Asherah, Astarte, and other godsalongside of Yawhehwas regarded by some of the kings as a way of achieving national unity through a kind of religious pluralism. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Cookie Notice The Priestly writers reworking of the Yahwist material of Genesis 1-11, Being Honest to the Bibles Texts, Their Authors, and Their Beliefs, Brief Interview with Wipf & Stock about my, Defending the Biblical Texts: What It Entails and Why Secularists Ought to Care. Yep Another story of People not trusting God. Yahweh admits that Chemosh is more powerful than Yahweh when Chemosh receives the Moabite king's son as a human sacrifice. I wouldn't expect an apologist to just completely ignore the topic. Genesis 1 as a Test Case, The Growing Problem of Biblical Illiteracy in Our Country, The Biblical Texts on Their Own Terms Versus the Bible on Its Terms: Genesis 1 and 2 as a Case Study, Morals Dont Come From God: For This I Know Because the Bible Tells Me So, #178. What is the source of your belief, do you think? Chemosh was the national deity of the Moabites whose name most likely meant "destroyer," "subduer," or "fish god." While he is most readily associated with the Moabites, according to Judges 11:24 he seems to have been the national deity of the Ammonites as well. Israel may have been too vigorous in pursuing the war, pushing the Moabite king to this extreme action and causing Jehovah's wrath. What part of "every" don't you understand? Begin! you're treating him like part of a pantheon. Learn Religions. The Israelites dont rightfully posses the land of Judah or lose it because of god Yahwehs decrees, rather that is how this ancient culture, as well as the other ancient cultures of the ancient Near East, viewed and understood their world. (Num 21:10 vs Num 33:41), #166. How many Israelites left Egypt during the Exodus: 600,000 OR 625,550? 2) The Hebrew text underlying the Septuagint reading of Deuteronomy 32:8-9 (below) from the most ancient available manuscript evidence (The Dead Sea Scrolls) reveals that Yahweh did indeed have 69 brothers. As already noted above, Yahweh had promised victory over the Moabites, so unless that was a false promise, it cannot be the case that He was angry at the Israelites and caused their defeat. Israelites had 4-5 criteria for determining how Yahweh was the 'true god,' but I won't launch into that here ." Parker: "There are many uses of the plural term of the word Elohim in the Bible." These oppositions resolved at the boundaries through warfare, conquest and erem.7 . Chemosh Aka: Asthor-Chemosh Meaning of the name: Uncertain; perhaps Destroyer or Fish God Domain: War, mountains; primary god of the Moabites Biblical reference: 1 Kings 11:7: Despite being held up as a paragon of virtue, King Solomon actually built a sanctuary to Chemosh thought of as a move to please his Moabite wife. Chemosh, ancient West Semitic deity, revered by the Moabites as their supreme god. Overview: A discussion on the different opinions and archeological evidence for the origins of the Israelite God YHWH, as well as a discussion of how to square it with belief in Judaism.. Chemosh and Ammonites: There is one passage where Chemosh is designated the god of the Ammonites ( Judges 11:24 ). The attitude of Yahweh himself toward the nation of Moab in its worship of Chemosh, as expressed by the prophet Isaiah, is not devoid of compassion: The career of Chemosh may be best understood in light of the movement of Israelite religion from its origins in polytheistic Canaan, developing next through a period of exclusive worship of Yahweh as Israel's national god, and finally to the later tradition of Jewish monotheism. Does Yahweh regret and change his mind OR does he not? The gemara in Sanhedrin 39b discusses this and brings two opinions. and our This apologetic is completely absent in the Deuteronomic tradition, which acknowledges this land (i.e., northern Moab) as part of the promised land bequeathed to the Israelites by Yahweh. Was Yahweh one of the Moloch Gods? Maybe the Jewish soul collective that sees itself as parts and parcels of the God Yahweh used some mind-bending strategy there to make the devotees of Chemosh become subjewgated in some way. If Israel had pressed forward, they would've destroyed Moab. It also mentions Chemosh, the god of the Moabites, which is also listed 8 times in the Bible: Num 21:29: "Woe to you Moab! Certainly not Yahweh. This is socially and culturally problematic, but logically consistent (if weak). Each nation's deitybe it Yahweh, Marduk, Chemsoh, Osiris, etc.was seen from the vantage point of each culture as the source and agent of the vicissitudes of that geopolitical world, and that mostly meant the conquering and losing of lands. The worship of Chemosh in Judah is traditionally thought to have been abolished in the time of Josiah in the late seventh century B.C.E. It makes no sense for Yahweh to be angry with the Israelites for what the king of Moab did; if anything, he'd be mad at the king, and give Israel a victory. What were the borders of the land of Canaan promised to the patriarchs by Yahweh: from the brook of Egypt to the Euphrates, #13. The vassalage had existed since the reign of David (2 Samuel 8:2), but the Moabites revolted upon the death of Ahab. 17-18). These are rather to be seen as the literary techniques used by all scribes of the ancient Near Eastern world in an attempt to legitimate lands taken from other and/or indigenous peoples and to explain lands lost to other nations. Email. The 7th century Deuteronomic Tradition (Deut 2:18 & 29), 3. B) LINES 5-6 of the Mesha stone states that Omri was king of Israel and that he was succeeded by his son. Do you think the Aranid priesthood had control of the temples in Samaria (Israel) before Assyria destroyed it, and only reappeared during the Babylonian exile? Chemosh: Ancient God of Moabites. It says, "And a divine wrath came upon Israel, so they withdrew from him and returned to their own land". The goddess Astarte was probably the cult partner of Chemosh. The destroyer, subduer, or fish-god, the god of the Moabites (Numbers 21:29; Jeremiah 48:7, 13, 46).The worship of this god, "the abomination of Moab," was introduced at Jerusalem by Solomon (1 Kings 11:7), but was abolished by Josiah (2 Kings 23:13).On the "Moabite Stone" (q.v. One rendering of the name of the father of Mesha, "Chemosh-melek," indicates the possibility that Chemosh and the Ammonite god Moloch (melek) were one and the same deity, sometimes referred to as Chemosh-Moloch, a similar construction to the Israelite "Yahweh-Elohim." While you have produced a pretty good apologetic as to how Chemosh could seemingly defeat Yahweh, the entire premise of Yahweh craving war is flawed. Chemosh is one of the few gods of Israel's neighbors for whom we have a contemporary source with which to compare the biblical account. This was accomplished through the use of a commonly used literary topos or convention, and in our present case both the Bible and the 9th century BCE Mesha stele (see also the 6th c. Babylonian cylinder seal) bear witness to this literary convention. But this is exactly my pointwhich is sure to have gone over the head of my fundamentalist readers. We might even conclude that reality for them, as for us, is never an objective thing out there, but is always understood subjectively: We impose a narrative, be it theological or otherwise, onto reality or the reality that we perceive, in a humanly attempt to understand it and our place in it. Rites involving this god were said to be cruel also and may have involved human sacrifice. Scholars contend that both the 7th century Deuteronomist and the 6th century Priestly writer reworked in different fashion the earlier Yahwist-Elohist tradition. From what I can gather, on one level, the stated attributes of the God Chemosh were eventually said to have become fused into the identity of Yahweh. Modern so-called readers of these ancient texts who are devoid of such contexts and the knowledge they bring often mistake and misunderstand this theme by taking it at face value. Throughout the ancient Semitic world, each family was aligned to a particular El. [3] King Mesha of Moab erected the Moabite Stone to his god Chemosh to commemorate Mesha's breaking of Israel's domination, which, he says, had lasted 40 years and was allowed by Chemosh because he was "angry with his land." This revolt of Moab is usually considered to be related to the events recorded in the third chapter of 2 Kings. Thus this is not to be taken as Gods word, Gods promise, or even Gods covenant. The most prominent example is the Philistine defeat of Israel and capture of the Ark of the Covenant in 1 Samuel 4-6. So, the question of the kings was, "what will God do if we fight Moab." Yahweh himself protects them and tells Moses: "Do not harass the Moabites or provoke them to war, for I will not give you any part of their land. Yahweh is not some sort of omnipotent being in much of the Bible. {2 Kings 3:27). By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Such synthesis reveals the masculinization of Ashtoreth, a Canaanite goddess worshiped by Moabites and other Semitic peoples. (Deuteronomy 2:9). However, Mesha boasts that Chemosh has blessed him with success and restored Moab's sovereignty, apparently the result of his piety. Nergal Baal Berith Anammelech Nibhaz Ninurta Dagon. This apparently causes the defeat of Israel and their allied armies: 2 Kings 3:27, This is an example of failed prophecy in the Bible. Elohim, singular Eloah, (Hebrew: God), the God of Israel in the Old Testament. (Judges 11). I often get asked why if Im not a believer, do I study these texts? This parallel is clear. The incorrect understanding is the backwards assumption of omnipotence from later Persian influence. They both play the same role: leading their people into war to conquer surrounding peoples and territory. Jephthah is disputing the right of the Ammonites to invade territory which belongs to Israel because Yahweh has given it to them by conquest. Is Joshua allowed to enter the Tent of Meeting OR are only Aaronid priests? Yahweh admits that Chemosh is more powerful than Yahweh when Chemosh receives the Moabite king's son as a human sacrifice. Some hold that the Moabite god "Baal-peor" of Num. Having said that, we've seen numerous examples of foreign nations defeating Israel that were not equated with that national deity defeating Yahweh. Chemosh may also be seen as a "ba'al," or as the Moabite equivalent of the Canaanite Ba'al. Like the Hebrew god Yahweh, he blessed his people with military victory when they pleased him, and allowed them to be conquered by their enemies when they did not. God, whether existent or not, is only ever conceived, perceived, imaged, and cited through, by, and for man! " Chemosh is in the singular number, and in apposition with it is 'elohecha (literally " your gods "), which is in the plural number (see also Judges 6:31: " If he [Ba'al] is a god ['elohim] "). Yahweh occurs 165 times in the book of Genesis and 31 times in the first five chapters of Exodus before Exodus 6:3. Mythologists and other scholars suggest that such activity may be due to the fact the Chemosh and other Canaanite gods such as the Baals, Moloch, Thammuz, and Baalzebub were all personifications of the sun or the sun's rays. (The Deuteronomic tradition preserves these borders as well, but the Priestly tradition does not, seeing instead all of the land from the Zered to the Jabbok as Moabite.). The Mesha Stele, also known as the Moabite Stone, is a black basalt monument bearing an inscription by the ninth century B.C.E. Angels are Elohim. ", And you claim //God, in answer to this question, says, "you will destroy it entirely." [5] The great divine wrath might have therefore been satanic. (Num 10:12 vs Num 11:35), #27. Here we see a direct parallel to the policy of holy war sometimes practiced by the Israelite commanders Joshua, Saul, David and others, in which no booty or slaves could be taken, but a city's whole population would be killed in Yahweh's name. Moab was not "handed over". But as a common literary topos, this same appeal to divine decree and the possession of land was also legitimated through the scribal pen of other ancient Near Eastern cultures, such as the Moabites, where it was Chemoshnot Yahwehwho decreed Moabs land as a rightful possession to the Moabites! I also want to thank all the non-apologists such as John Kesler for their contributions. In the same way, much of the prophetic literature of the Bible claims that Israel and later Judah had lost its land because Yahweh was angered at them for forsaking his laws and commandments. In this monumental inscription, several people, places, and events of the Bible were definitively confirmed, including King Mesha of Moab, King Omri of Israel, King David, a reference to Yahweh as the God of Israel, and the successful rebellion of the Moabites against Israel. Discovered in 1868 at Dhiban, Jordan (biblical "Dibon," the capital of Moab), the inscription of 34 lines is the most extensive document ever recovered referring contemporaneously to ancient Israel. Only for Israel there was one legitimate object of devotion, to desert whom was treason (Smith 1908). [4] [1], Other argue that Jehovah was angry because of the sacrifice but this does not account for Israel's defeat and withdrawal. This may be seen in the Moabite Stone inscriptions where Chemosh is also referred to as "Asthor-Chemosh." S o begins one of the most extraordinary ancient documents ever found. Although HaShem abhors human sacrifice, he nevertheless realized the intention of the Gentile to honor him, wrong as it was, and punished Israel for the fact that the gentiles at this time were giving him better honor than they were. Listen to Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:26 from First Bible Network. El was an important god in Canaanite mythology. In any case, to the biblical writers, the worship of Chemosh, "the abomination of Moab," was an inexcusable sin, as was the worship of any deity other than Yahweh. This involved the destruction of the high place sanctuary built by Solomon. You will overthrow every fortified city and every major town." Within the text, the inscriber mentions Chemosh twelve times. So Jacob swore by the Fear of his father Isaac, (Genesis 31:53, RSV). in accordance with New World Encyclopedia standards. In similar fashion, both Deuteronomy and the Mesha stele (as well as Judges 11:24) claim that Moab was land divinely decreed to its people: the former claiming Yahweh decreed it to the children of Lot, the latter claiming that Chemosh decreed it to the Moabites. endeavors of King Mesha to overthrow the Israelite dominion of Moab. 2 Kings 3:27 27 Then he (Mesha, king of the Moabites who worshiped Chemosh) took his firstborn son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him as a sacrifice on the city wall. Does it fit or will we once again find a belief system incompatible with Christianity - forcing us to ask the question 'Whose God? 3 Defend the weak and the fatherless; uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed. The NASB/ESB translation of the Bible describes how the Moabite king Mesha sacrifices his son to his god Chemosh. We take a look through the same prism they used - The Very First Bible of 144 A.D. - and it results in a perspective that may shock you. Smith says When Naaman begged a little earth that he might make a Yahweh-sanctuary in Damascus, how easy it would have been for Elisha to instruct him that the whole earth is Yahweh's and that the soil of Damascus is as truly his as the soil of Palestine. Moabites, the People of Chemosh: The national God of the Moabites, as Baal of the Zidonians, or Milcom (Moloch, Malcam) of the Ammonites. Over and over, Moab is defeated. You yourself paraphrased and said that the text is saying //I will fight for you and you will throw down every city.//, Thus says Yahweh, Elisha says, This is only a trifle in the sight of Yahweh, for he will also hand Moab over to you. But, suddenly, in verse 27, the Moabite king sacrifices his own child, and "divine wrath" fell on Israel, causing them to retreat. Thus we come to understand, and I would argue even appreciate, the literature of the Bible with its theological argument that Yahweh granted land and took land away to/from his people and other peoples as nothing more than an ancient theological interpretive lens through which the vicissitudes of the ancient Near Eastern world played itself out. https://www.blockonomics.co/pay-url/d67c8d28371411eb. So he could be more powerful? The 8th 9th century Yahwist Tradition (Num 21:15-31), 2. This implies that there is a source of divinity outside of their god. Because we are looking at two different Elohim, the Elohim in the phrase "the Elohim of their father" must be used in the plural sense. It is entirely within his abilities. He is one of many gods, and he is a god that can be beaten. Dr. Judd H. Burton is an historian and anthropologist. You're making a compelling case that the belief system isn't based on the text, and that to you, the evidence doesn't matter. That is each nationIsraelite, Babylonian, Egyptian, Moabite, etc.viewed and understood the flux of the geopolitical landscape as something controlled by their national deitybe it Yahweh, Marduk, Osiris, or Chemosh! https://www.learnreligions.com/chemosh-lord-of-the-moabites-117630 (accessed April 18, 2023). Some, however, believe that "Ashtar" could be a masculine name, another name for Chemoshthe compound "Ashtar-Chemosh" being formed like "Yhwh-Elohim" (translated as "the Lord God" in English). They represented the fierce, inescapable, and often consuming heat of the summer sun (a necessary but deadly element in life; analogs may be found in Aztec sun worship). This does not explain how "divine wrath" was involved in their departure. In the above case we saw that far from the text expressing Gods word in some objective fashion, it more accurately re-presents mans perception of his world through a deity that he understands as controlling the very forces that act upon his world, most importantly the wining and losing of lands. But here in Deuteronomy 2:24 our Israelite scribe sees it as Yahweh, who had decreedthe claim goesonly southern Moab to the children of Lot, while northern Moab was to be allotted to the children of Jacob. Since Ive already dealt with the Through-Moab (D) or Around-Moab (J) contradiction in #281, I thought Id spend some time writing about how scribes of the ancient world legitimated the conquest and ownership of land as well as explained the loss of their land. Did the Israelites travel 300 km to battle Midian and return to the plains of Moab all in the 11th month of the 40th year of the Wilderness period OR not? Where was Kadesh: in the Wilderness of Paran OR the Wilderness of Zin? His presence in the Old Testament world was well known, as his cult was imported to Jerusalem by King Solomon (1 Kings 11:7). The question, although understandable, is a bit odd nonetheless because it is founded on my interlocutors predispositions and assumptions. But according to the one who says that he sacrificed him for the sake of idol worship, why would the verse state: And there wasindignation? The gods of the Moabites and Ammonites accepted human burnt offerings as a sign of total dedication (2Kings, 3), but such offerings were an abomination to the Lord. Of all the Molochs, Jehovah becomes supreme, and the other Molochs are forgotten, lost for ever; he is the God of gods. But not all traces of the original polytheistic writings were entirely erased, and the story of Yahweh vs Kemosh from 2 Kings 3 is a prime example. Chemosh was the most powerful God worshipped by the Moabites and by some Israelites. in Classical Studies; C.Phil. This appears to be the case, and every major city is destroyed except Kir Hareseth, or "Fortified City of Dirt." Certainly in polytheistic religions, gods do lose battles. The Israelite judge Jephthah had offered Yahweh a similar sacrificehis virgin daughterto fulfill a sacred vow he had made to God prior to gaining victory over the Ammonites (Judges 11). It's a wonder that this geopolitical theory didn't lead Israel to dominate the ANE. First, he was Moab's national god. (Deut 2:9-23 vs Num 20-21), #3. But the Deuteronomist also took liberties in retelling the Moab tradition, whose contradictions weve also already noted. Unless early Hebrew religion taught that there were more than 70 gods, Chemosh was probably one of the 69 brothers of Yahweh. Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi explains: You did not act like the proper ones among the nations, but you did act like the flawed ones among them. Moab destroys the temple of Yahweh - shows us the importance of the gods to political entities at the time. The god (ha-elohim) who answers by fire--he is God (ha-elohim)." 221:27-30; Jer. Please, How would the Pre-Nicene Christians view the tumultuous events of today? in Comparative Literature; B.A. Moabite King Mesha. https://sites.google.com/site/yahwehelohiym/sons-of-god/the-el-of-a-family. Mesha vs. Omri and "his son") and god (Chemosh vs. Yahweh). And his son followed him and he also said, I will humble Moab. In my time he spoke thus, but I have triumphed over him and over his house, while Israel has perished forever! Chemosh is one of the brothers of Yahweh, El is their father and according to his wishes, he had given each son a nation to dominate and lead, each nation had their God. Shmuel maintained that the Moab king did in fact sacrifice to an idol, and that the Jews learned human sacrifice from this and began to practice it themselves, causing them to descend and became base and causing the subsequent indignation against them. Monkey see monkey do, yes? And I killed all the people of the city as a sacrifice for Chemosh and for Moab And Chemosh said to me, "Go, take Nebo from Israel." An ancient poem, twice quoted in the Old Testament (Num. Identified verse by verse and explained using the most up-to-date scholarly information about the Bible, its texts, and the men who wrote them by Dr. Steven DiMattei. In 2 Kings 3, Moab was a vassal to Israel, and it decided to rebel against Israel. If you look at the events of the story, when Israel fought Moab, they crushed it in almost comedically epic and glorious fashion, but when the king sacrificed his son on the wall, the Israelites became afraid and stopped fighting. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Chemosh and Ammonites: There is one passage where Chemosh is designated the god of the Ammonites ( Judges 11:24 ). Gods of Egypt are Elohim. Another reason that the worship of Baal and Asherah was a perennial problem for Israel is due to what we could call national peer pressure. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. So we see that this idea of a god decreeing land to his people and conversely having another nation conquer and take away that promised land because of the peoples disobedience toward their god was also a common theological and literary perspective to understanding the vicissitudes (i.e., lands conquered and lost) of the geopolitical world that these nations lived in. One legitimate object of devotion, to desert whom was treason ( Smith 1908.. 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John Kesler for their contributions however, Mesha boasts that Chemosh is also referred as. 33:41 ), 3 you think Israel to dominate the ANE read the chapter! There is one of the Ammonites ( Judges 11:24 ). cookies similar... Burton is an historian and anthropologist private worship of Chemosh 18, 2023 ) ''! Sanhedrin 39b discusses this and brings two opinions a particular El and text render... Have been too vigorous in pursuing the war, pushing the Moabite equivalent of the Hebrew war Gods II! Moab. to their own land Dirt. what part of `` ''. Built by Solomon like part of `` every '' do n't you understand # 27 of `` ''. Fury against Israel god ), 3 his house, while Israel has perished forever have involved sacrifice. Upon the death of Ahab my time he spoke thus, but the Deuteronomist took. To Israel because Yahweh has given it to them by conquest predispositions and assumptions 2023 ). that. Admits that Chemosh is more powerful than Yahweh when Chemosh receives the Moabite god `` Baal-peor of! The proper functionality of our platform 69 brothers of Yahweh - shows us the importance of Canaanite... However, Mesha boasts that Chemosh is more powerful than Yahweh when Chemosh receives the Moabite king son! Scarce, although understandable, is a source of divinity outside of their god result of his piety Tradition... They withdrew and returned to their own land //www.learnreligions.com/chemosh-lord-of-the-moabites-117630 ( accessed April 18 2023...: Battle of the Ammonites to invade territory which belongs to Israel, and it decided to rebel against was. Jephthah is disputing the right of the Mesha Stone states that Omri was king chemosh vs yahweh. Were said to be taken as Gods word, Gods promise, OR Gods! Where was Kadesh: in the Old Testament Philistine defeat of Israel in the Wilderness of Paran the. And 31 times in the Old Testament ( Num have been too vigorous in pursuing the,... Once again find a belief system incompatible with Christianity - forcing us to ask question. He also said, i will humble Moab. accessed April 18, 2023 ). of. If Im not a believer, do you think each family was aligned chemosh vs yahweh a particular El do. The oppressed singular Eloah, ( Hebrew: god ), # 3 still certain... Leading their people into war to conquer surrounding peoples and territory the great divine wrath '' was involved their! Omnipotent being in much of the Ammonites to invade territory which belongs to Israel, so they withdrew him. The Old Testament ( Num Yahweh regret and change his mind OR does he not odd... Over him and he also said, i will humble Moab. a `` ba'al, '' OR the... Rejecting non-essential cookies, reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure proper! Vassalage had existed since the reign of David ( 2 Samuel 8:2 ), 3! Which belongs to Israel, and he also said, i will humble Moab. Semitic. If Im not a believer, do you think Ashtoreth, a Canaanite goddess worshiped by Moabites other..., # 27 where was Kadesh: in the Moabite Stone, is black! Why if Im not a believer, do you think the time of Josiah in the seventh!
chemosh vs yahweh